This Week in Hospitality Marketing Live Show 263 August 21st 2020

This Week in Hospitality Marketing Live Show 263 August 21st 2020

This Week in Hospitality Marketing Live Show 263


Edward StOnge
Dean Schmit
Tristan Heaword
Ben Hanley
Tammie Carlisle
Stuart Butler
Lily Mockerman
Adele Gutman
Show Notes
00:01 — Google and how they are handling clients large debt —
00:33 — Loss of corp travel and how Covid has permanently changed travel

Top Story

1. Accor, IHG consider cost-driven merger

Brands & Product

2. NYC Hotels Will Now Require Health Declaration Forms From Out-of-state Travelers
3. Omni Explores Sale of Five Hotels as Part of Reinvestment Strategy
4. Report: Disney Parks Attendance Down 80%, EPCOT and Animal Kingdom Outperforming Other Parks

Intermediaries & Distribution

5. Airbnb has filed to go public
6. The European Cities Using the Pandemic As a Cure for Airbnb
7. Google plays hardball with pandemic-affected travel site, freezes its ad account

Marketing & Strategy

8. How Covid-19 could change the way we travel—forever
9. Pandemic Pricing Principles for Hotels
10. GBTA: Expect Travel Policies & Compliance Measures to Change as Biz Travel Resumes

Tech & Finance

11. Contact Tracing: How Technology Can Help End the Pandemic
12. STUDY: 80% of Consumers Willing to Download Hotel App to Enable Contactless Experience
13. Amazon Wants to Make You an ML Practitioner— For Free


14. Forget Spain. Super-Yachts Are Flocking to Croatia and Turkey


15. Family of four staying at Rydges seeded 90% of second-wave COVID cases

This Week in Hospitality Marketing Live Show 263 Transcripts (English U.S.)

[00:00:17.420] – Loren

Hello, everyone, and welcome to This Week, In hospitality marketing, live show number two hundred and sixty three. And yes, your eyes do not deceive you.


[00:00:25.490] – Loren

That is the illustrious, the one and only the incomparable Mr. StOnge, a devastating, and dashingly one who impressed the Canadian world with his prowess, his insight, his forbearance as to strategies and inside marketing techniques.


[00:00:42.650] – Loren

So far, we just got a little bit on the lower scale things.


[00:00:46.280] – Tristan

Minister, thank you very much. I hope you’re talking about strategy and insight. And I knew instantly it wouldn’t be anything that you were getting. So not even close.


[00:00:56.300] – Loren

Well, I’m a blind pig just for looking for a turnup,  that’s me.


[00:00:58.400] – Loren

Also with us, Mr. Dean Schmidt, with the capabilities of metasearch that are unknown to normal mortals capable of going over and determining the exact nuance of what exactly do with just the right moment with powerful tools such as metasearch and all those platforms, which actually our first thought was going to be a little bit about my search in a strange, convoluted way. But Mr. Dean, with base camp metasearch and then the really cool second semester, I’m going to be for it.


[00:01:25.430] – Dean

It’s so easy. Metasearch, marketing, dot com, you know, me names, you know, means roadblocks. And of course, we would not be complete without the other side of the pond. The people that are the true driving force of all that’s good in the world from three and six.


[00:01:45.110] – Loren

Well, yeah, he’s not here yet. Make sure no one is here, you know, like to count him. I said my name three times on any kind of webinar on.


[00:01:55.790] – Loren & Ben

But you’re not wearing the striped suit. It’s the only thing that bothers me. I can get change loren. If you need me, I get you. I was thinking about Beetlejuice. You know that Mr. Bin Henley, three and six, which they are.


[00:02:12.770] – Loren & Ben

The model that I love is the fact that you do it right with the digital marketing, without the BHL, without dishonesty, dishonesty, yes or no, they make you get that tattooed because it’s becoming even a cathedra thing that you can never quite remember how to say it.


[00:02:26.480] – Ed

But we can. I mean, not Loren. I don’t even know Dean. Second company, name it. It’s the easier one of the two. Come on.


[00:02:33.950] – Dean

I mean, best matter a metasearch. Oh, shit. I’m not alone in this metasearch marketing dot com. There you go. That is a marketing dot com and that makes a ton of sense.


[00:02:48.980] – Ed

I was going to metasearch Mighty Mouse dot com and I just thought it was strange, actually.


[00:02:54.530] – Loren

But remember, he was making money.


[00:02:55.770] – Loren

But you’re right, we won’t judge all those in favor of a rebrand for I’m sure to get that domain redirected.


[00:03:08.390] – Ed

I’m fairly certain the Mighty Mouse trademark has probably expired.


[00:03:12.200] – Ben

So because that’s the only problem with that demand. Right. And that’s all I can think of it.


[00:03:20.330] – Loren

This of actually to do the things I did for for I’m stealing Tim’s suggestion for our first topic, which is Google and its handling of Trivago. And interestingly, Ed and I see it slightly different, but I agree with Ed Norton, right. Go figure. Right. We disagree with that. And then the sky is blue and the sun rotates.


[00:03:46.940] – Loren



[00:03:47.690] – Loren

Hey Tammie. Finally, some intelligence on the show. Good God, we needed it.


[00:03:56.990] – Loren

We’re about ready to jump on to the topic that Tim through back as a response to the e-mail that went out as to Google and how it’s been handling its trivago relationships and so forth as to pass through building. And Dean, you’re great on this because you know the insides of all this, because Ed brought up a very interesting point to this. We don’t know the whole story. We just see what is being broadcasted as to, oh, all of a sudden Google turned into a and is demanding that these companies like them.


[00:04:23.660] – Ed



[00:04:25.190] – Ed

So my point here is, is in our own personal experience, as far as what we were going through and preparing to help our clients with, I mean, we went to all of our biggest cost centers and said, hey, you know, this is who we serve. This is what we pay you. Is there any consideration and I’ve got to be honest with you, Google was one of the first ones to respond positively and fairly. So, I mean, you do have to give it OK now to put timelines to this.


[00:04:53.790] – Loren

That was early on when Google didn’t see its negative impact on its revenues.


[00:04:58.670] – Ed

Right. So, you know, there are a few things here. First of all, all of the companies involved in this quarrel are massive, heavily funded companies. They are not small businesses.



And, you know, if you have a billion dollar market cap, you have access to other means of keeping yourself afloat, including public debt markets. So, I mean, I don’t see Google like this article. And this story was very slanted to Google being big and bad and a monopoly. But I got to tell you, at least in my experience, Google blew me away at how they treated small business, at least my small business in in this this climate.



I mean, they were they pale. They were better than my landlord responding to me.



Didn’t have money for that. You still owe me money.



Hey, I want to I want to start to put a stick in the sand is to a benchmark on some things. It’s good that you’re here. But this because I was going to include milestones anyway. One of the shining lights out of what we’re going through and have been going through so far is this resurgence of collaboration between what was competitors, our industry. There have been some very shining, positive, shining examples of companies that have stepped up. And yours, Tammy, yours.



I’ll call out Stuart. He’s not even here. I’m not going to go negative on anybody else. But I will say to you, Laura, collaboration.



Interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah.



And it sure, Dean gave some pretty solid advice to a lot of people to get a paycheck for those either. So, you know, there’s been this amazing surge of this. What can we do to help? OK, how can we work together, how can we share stuff and what’s it like kind of gentle share. It’s like, here’s my desk, here’s my here’s my stuff. What do you need? How can I help?



I mean, tell me you guys have worked in ways with your travel that would have been eight months ago would be like, you know, you guys are collaborating on data content, share abilities. How can we help? This is what we can do. What can you do? There are other companies nameless because I just don’t want to go over and have them chase me down later that have been a real pain in the ass that have that have been billing for stuff.



They weren’t even doing that we’re charging for stuff they wouldn’t shut off and they just kept rolling out the invoices. And you’re sitting there going, huh? You know, so I know what you’re saying with Google early on because you even point them out. Months ago when we were talking about all this, like we are now, like, yeah, they stepped up and helped and so forth. And compared to your landlord who told you, go screw you, send me the check, you know?



Yes. To that point, we don’t know the whole story with truckers and so forth. But I’m leaning into the idea of this is a chance to put the dagger in on some of these third parties that Google doesn’t want to be competing with.



So directly against any or perhaps Google looked at the landscape of who needed help and decided that companies north of a billion dollars and valuation with tons of capital, maybe they don’t need as much help.



I don’t think it was just that. I think you perhaps right with that edge, but I don’t think it’s just the big one, the big and, you know, megaliths, how I think they’ve done it on a case by case basis because we were in that situation where the previous company and we know that perhaps what so generous from from the get go, although they were working with what? Trying to work collaboratively. But it wasn’t oh. Oh, everything’s gone wrong.



Let let’s help you out. It was it was kind of a setup. You’ve not done this well. So this. There’s a bit of a bit of a give and take with that, right, but but even that’s fair.



I’m not saying I’m not saying I would I would find that akin to, you know, there are multiple hotels that I know of that have thrived through this whole thing, believe it or not, who are ahead of their year. I would be offended if one of them came to me and said, hey, we need financial help because I’m aware that they’re more profitable this year than they were last year.



And so, you know, I don’t fault and listen, I’m not a pro Google guy at all, but I also don’t fault them for wanting to make sure that, you know, everything’s fair and what they’re doing. And if you are if you’ve been a bad customer, if you haven’t paid your bills consistently throughout your history, if there have been other things about you, I’m not mad at a company like Google saying I’m sorry, like, you know, well, you hit on to me.



What’s the big missing piece in this article right now? I mean, was this they owed that much in the normal course of billions right up. Their billings were net 30 and they got billed and it was just within those 30 days or were they consistently late in a good six months pass to write because the. From a company perspective, I’m going to be more willing to work with someone that comes to me who is right. I mean, let’s let’s be sorry.



I’m laughing. I’m laughing at Stewart’s comment.



A little pig little pig laughed at I and. Yes. You can say sorry.



Tell me something at the Big Apple. Sorry for interrupting.



Yeah, it’s totally cool. But I mean, I said I think you can out right. How. And none of us know we can speculate. But if they were six months past due on their bills, I can’t fault Google for saying that’s that’s all before this. Well, at this point it’s not. But in March, if they were three to six months past due, that was pretty covid. It’s a very different scenario to me for someone to come to help and say, hey, I need help for a couple of months going down versus, like you said, someone that’s incredibly profitable and doing even better.



Hey, I need some concessions.



Well, mind the let’s keep in mind that these are the same OTAs that for years now have been really bashing Google saying, well, you’re competing with us and you’re not treating us fair. I mean, these two years haven’t been exactly kind to Google over the years either. And for many years now in the metasearch landscape, they’ve all been talking about how we’re going to pull back our metasearch spend booking. Dotcom is going to stop spending on metasearch.



It never happened.



You pull up any hotel out there called the most obscure hotel you can think of.



I mean, not a five room roadside end, but a very general hotel. Pull it up on Google. Look at the Google Hotel ad. You’re going to see somebody advertising on there. They have never run out of people to advertise on their during coverage did shrink.



And you could start getting them at a really cheap CPC. But they never ran out. It was never vacant. All right, yeah, this is complex, right, and it is multiple villains, so that one of those movies where you’re never quite sure who the bad guy is. But I would say it’s ironic to me that OTUS or accusing Google of suckling at the teeth of the hospitality industry for years, that that was kind of the accusations like you’re making that that is the part that is the pot calling the kettle black.



That never happened.



So, you know, there’s a lot of otus out there that have made a lot of money with this shell game of bidding on a brand name, independent hotel brand name in and bidding on those keywords, paying Google because they know they’ll make a little bit more than they pay in Google. But the margin, the profits in the margins, and they’ve done this at the expense of the hotel. So so there’s a narrative here that people are looking for a bad actor and say and Google is an easy mark for that.



Right. It’s easy to say, Google, you’re terrible, you’re evil. And it plays into this fear that they’re becoming this massive monopoly. But the is of leveraging that to their own advantage. And let’s not forget, although I’m a fan of OTAs in concept, they’re not innocent in this. They’ve done a lot of things that aren’t in the interest of the hospitality industry and especially not in the interests of the individual hotels. So I don’t want people just to read a headline that Google is screwing people with billing and jump on that bandwagon, because that’s really not what’s happening here.



It’s obvious that a poorly planned and overly leveraged so that when the pandemic hit, they’re like, oh, crap, we can’t keep knocking these things the way we have for years.



And by the way, for large companies like that, milking credit terms is common business practice. I mean, for a long time, it was a well-known joke that Disney was, you know, years behind on payments to their electric bill and their basic utilities here in Orlando.



So any amount to check kiting, right. It’s it’s no different than using someone else’s good favor for your own financial gain.



And so at some point in the bar and at that time, it is a pandemic and revenue coming in, they actually profit as exposed. So many who are business practices. That’s why you can see why there’s just absolutely nothing left in the coffers or the way they’ve been working or even worse, that when there are things left in the coffers. But you don’t want to spend it on the things that are important. You just want to keep that money for yourself.



And there are definitely some bad actors out there, not just in the hospitality industry as well. I hasten to add, this happened happened everywhere.



But there’s definitely some bad actors out there that when the tide goes out, you find out who’s swimming naked.



And not really Lauren, it’s not longer, but hey, now used to close up.






OK, so, I mean, I’m glad we’re we’re looking at this reasonably and not just doing the easy thing and making Google out to be the villain. Because I’ve got to be honest with you, it sounds like a bunch of villains fighting over, you know, who’s who’s the worst criminal.



That’s really what this article felt like that I completely agree with. Yeah, we’re not blameless in this. But in general, Google are very much about the money. We just you just need to look at that platform and how they will they will casually bring like that a simple little button that will be hidden under layers and layers of different ways of finding it. That will make them a tremendously large amount of money. If you don’t flip that from on to off, they will have their premium partners that we’ve had a direct example of this where they say we’re scoring, you are our customer, where scoring you against all of our other customers.



And if you’re not a good little customer, we’ll take the toys away from you.



Do you? Yeah.



Can you imagine walking into a department store and they say, sorry, can I just check what’s in your wallet, please, and watch your credit rating?



Really sorry. The guy next you have more money. Do you mind waiting at the back of the queue?



It’s like saying if you don’t buy as much as the guy next to you, you don’t get a plastic bag. You still have to carry it in your hands and walk like the walk of shame on the side. It I don’t think Google is blameless in this at all. And it boils down to me for years, four years they’ve been lax. Oh, guys spent 90 days, a hundred days payment terms pays when you want. Next time will you just pay me like beans calling.



I don’t care that he’s coming home to roost. And now all of a sudden they’re like people saying, oh, these great payment terms, you games could extend them a little bit. Our society is collapsing and they’re just not going to go no and in the article you can see that just by the way, I mean, granted, Google is could be better about that.



But at the same time, when you’re overly dependent on a company that has made it clear for years that they’re trying to eliminate you, it’s probably a bad idea to get into really bad credit terms with that organization and that specific instance with the relationship between the two of them.



Yeah, it’s becoming beholden, becoming reliant on your enemy for your success. And you know that he or she is trying to very slowly kill you, really slowly fight back.



But you massively outnumbered and you you’re the one hundred million.



We saw it we saw it happen when the first BP rolled out, the large companies staffed it up because they had the lawyers that knew how to do the dance to get the product in front of everybody else and give money to companies. And then we probably saw the smallest of types of icebergs of all the big companies that got money unjustifiably because they were the first in line to point that it’s like they walked in the door first. I had the more money.



I know how to process things. I’m going to be treated differently. I’m going to get money that I don’t even need, but because I’m a big company, have the ability to grab and before anybody else can figure out how to do it.



But I do the reason why, because as I also think that Google is not blind to the fact this is a chance to restructure the landscape and accelerate it could be an accelerator for what their ultimate evil plan is to take more of the market share.



Yes, they also have to understand it’s a risk they take because if they overreach here, they open a door for Amazon to be able to slide in and go, hey, Expedia, and whoever else is able to help you out.



We also have these consumers. Here is here’s what we’ll do for you.



You need some advertising when the risk is also outside of travel. We’ve already got a lot of antitrust conversation going on, especially in Europe. And this could really force America to jump on that bandwagon.



America has already started. I mean, Congress has already started questioning on it, having conversations, but they have so much lobbying that it’s not really going anywhere yet.



But this could be what pushes it over to with where there’s a real chance Google gets broken up. And so the game that they’re playing is not just hospitality, because forget forget what Ben just said about them being your enemy and that regardless, you should never put all your eggs in one basket. You all of your business should not come from one source. You’ve got to diversify. So if if that one source is Google and you’re in multiple industries and is Google, Google, Google, now that gets split up.



Google is going to be in trouble if they then have to split up their travel division from their other divisions.



You know, sure. I mean, but I will also tell you, I don’t envision the US being the leader at breaking up any of these US based. Now, they would like Emirates that own entire swaths of the world’s Internet.



It was because breaking up Google is akin to handing power of the Internet over to other countries where it’s currently squarely housed in a US based company. So I don’t think you’ll see the US doing it. I, I really doubt that. And of course, Google owns probably half our politicians, as does Apple and Facebook and all these other Golia.



That’s not even possible. Our politicians are so smart.



They know that when they walk from one side to the other side of the room, they know how that works.



That puts a punch to what you mentioned about Google’s move on the hospital CEO potentially, if they already did that with with meter by dropping their commission. So opening up metasearch to a commission only product. That was that was it. That was a big, big move that because, you know, it’s essentially making it a lot easier now for metasearch in an old style model.



So in a more friendly way for the for the hotel, because the hotel gets the data, which makes Google criminal for being good to the smaller underlying business.



You know, but it’s a risk for the military because they’re going to go all in on Google and that becomes a problem because they waste great opportunity now to make money. But once you’re beholden to one distributor, they control the market. They control the price.



They can put the market, though, because there are other channels out there that are very, very squeaky clean and put you at the forefront like Facebook.



Oh, wait, sorry about that.



You can just go all in on being a you don’t mean. Thing is, I didn’t I.



Well, don’t have AOL still has like eight million paying subscribers, so that Bin is the king of Search Engines Guild from The Simpsons.



Is Bing personified? God, can I get a search like that? I feel Bing. It doesn’t work well, doesn’t have volume, but it does work.



Well, I’m so pleased I’m here in time for The Simpsons reference.



Not wanting to. Not wanting to. WhiteKnight Google here. But let’s not forget that they very generously gave out some advertising credits to small businesses to help them get through this.



So not the biggest fan had some quite interesting rounds with Google where we overtly claim they were telling us to do something.



And I believe the phrase was quarterly bonus stress that just came out OK. So not the biggest fan, but we can look over. Look at what you’ve done.



And I’m also just I find it really hard to feel bad for companies who, you know, CEOs make millions of dollars a year and their, you know, corporate spend accounts have been fat and crazy.



And you’re forgetting that they saw decrease year over year for the first quarter in the history of their company. Yes.



You know, you’re got to feel bad like two whole percent, you know, and I feel good about that. Right. I feel so horrible, you know, especially when, you know, there are giant greedy companies, like we have a grocery store chain down here that is so reckless that their employees primarily on the company and they’re sitting on a 12 billion dollar cash pile to make sure that their future is safe. Those companies are horrible.



You should just be paying it all out to your top executives and to your investors and not at all caring about preparing for potential bad times.



The president flipped to was hurt.



To say what I would say, though, that if if you if you do feel compelled in any way to to stand up to these big people, these big companies, if Google is one of them, I suggest that what you do, that whenever you visit them, you steal as many Google related products as you can, but you’ve still got some Legos.



Haven’t you been listening? Pay for those one way or another? Yeah, yeah, I went great.



I think Lauren and I have both self professed ourselves as being tchotchke whores. We’ve got to be doing it. So that’s just one shelf of goodies.



I love the free T-shirts, man.



I said this was not about information.



It was about what you got tucked into t shirts. You are you wearing an Adelaide United and Australian football top that is. Is that what it is? Pretty close.



I feel like they ripped off a certain Premier League team in the Champions League.



I hate to throw the topic out in conversation.



I mean, Aikau, the buzz around the core, it’s a core a core part of me. What’s the word like using pirate idea?



Perineum the peritoneum or OK, Aikau for it’s like a whole lot at conferences.



Yeah, they’re right up there with Hill Tone and maybe I let the record show that twenty five minutes which just descended into anarchy, we descended into anarchy here, started the anarchy.



We were on the rails until the Lacerda when I know I’m losing our reputation now. Three it you have read Lawn’s dictionary.



This is launching its own show. I’m very thick but it’s got a lot of special words.



I’m not shocked that a core and I g or is it are you know, rats are looking.



Actually, I think they make a lot of sense from a local perspective based on their brand footprint’s. You know, they make a ton of sense and they, you know.



I’m not mad at the idea of that merger. I think it’s a good merger. I actually agree. I think that the portfolios are really complementary, especially with some of the kind of higher and more boutique brands that IHG has picked up in recent years. I think that that probably created a bridge that actually made it more interested in them in the first place, because, of course, if they were all Holiday Inns, it might not be as appetizing for them.



But I think this will bring also a little bit more diversity to a course portfolio as well. Yeah, quite a bit.



It fills a lot of gaps. I actually think this merger makes more sense than Starwood. Marriott.



Mm. Yeah. Very complimentary for sure. Anything interesting from a technical point of view, I would to round to like a digital marketing role here. There’s going to be a tremendous amount. Both of them guys are going to have to do with the title, their chief portfolios that go on until a couple requite tech centric in any case.



Well, and so, you know, the potential big loser here is Amadeus, who have invested an incredible amount of effort and have made acquisitions because of IHG. So, yeah, I but I got to tell you, from a portfolio perspective, I think it makes sense.



And I and I think there’s going to be a lot of interesting mixes of mergers. But I also think I still think you’re going to see either Marriott or Hilton sell off a brand or two.



I just for for a capital raise purposes.



Are you in the market? There’s only I mean, I’m I’m using my brother Robert called did send out a great list again this week. And thank you, Robert, for doing that. But I’ll be selling off a few of the properties is one of the topics he threw into that conversation. They’re going to get rid of possibly five hotels. I think there’s one or two here.



Let me grab it and throw it on their Hiep merger. Well, I think awfully high up merger on paper makes sense. However, it further puts them into a short term issue. Both of those companies are so dependent on large scale convention and group like I think you need to see an omni get folded into a strong leisure brand to to help balance, you know, kind of the the the problems that are going to exist for the next year or two in group.



Sorry, just to pick up on that, it’s actually leisure, not leisure. Leisure time a core.



And I don’t know you mentioned it before, but I’m fascinated by Droits Hotels, Adimab, 50, luxury, all inclusive resorts.



I think it’s smart choice.



Hotels, interestingly enough, is very similar in product volume to the types of products that underpin Hilton and Marriott. But Hilton and Marriott, because of their premium offerings, we picture in our head the premium offerings, not the Hamptons and the Homewood Suites that basically make up the majority of our portfolio. Now, it’s what’s amazing to me. Adela’s I barely understood you because of this deep Southern accent.



You’ve I lived to 10 years in Texas from when I was 16 to 26.



So I will be fixing and it’s going to be a light switch.



So I was working here and now in South Carolina and I think I landed in and.



Well, it looks good on you. You’re right.



That’s right. Y’all are going to drop off. I’m really sorry to only briefly make an appearance here, but everybody have a great weekend.



It’s so great to see you as always. Please come back as much as you possibly. OK, you don’t have to.



I just had a contract to show up trying to fix some things in my house that I’m trying to sell.



So I might be trying to sell that that that house that is falling through a sinkhole in the sandpit and, you know, good or bad, is that going to mean the really, really well, it’s in the freezer or is that s just high hopes up?



You you ain’t going to win this? I don’t know.



What I’m telling you is the contractors just to fill the sinkhole with water and they’re putting coins and they’re going to say that it’s a feature.



And that’s that’s how we make polls in South Carolina with with fuel travel, fuel travel is the preeminent podcast of the entire hospitality universe. They are award winning. They’re they’re incredibly intelligent and capable of tons of stuff. And they do a great service for a consumer sentiment. And they have an amazing product that allows for touchless keyless entry into rooms and platforms that are compliant and have some pretty cool stuff. So you always go to feel travel dotcom slash. But thanks for the plug, but that might be a little bit.



Thanks. We hope to see you, Baxter.



Yeah, it is an interesting comment of wood wood owners Sue Mariotte for selling a brand. So I don’t think that you’re going to see Marriott sell a brand for the brand. They sit on its own, but I would not be surprised. Let’s not forget the last time there was a major financial crisis, Blackstone came in and meddled quite a bit in some pretty large brands and made a ton of money off of doing it. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re not already looking at potential interesting portfolios to piece together, which would include divesting a, you know, a couple of brands off of some of these bigger kind of spread out brands.



If you are remaining owner of that, you shouldn’t sue Marriott for that, because that means Marriott’s distribution capabilities are now more focused on the properties that are left instead of also being spread out to whatever brands they divest. And honestly, if you’re one of the brands being divested, I would only sue if it was a bad plan. But I got to be honest with you, if I was a franchise holder of a brand that Blackstone was looking to buy, I would just go look at what they did in the last kind of spin that they did.



They they they’re really good at this type of stuff.



Well, I’d also say which brand in particular, if it’s an emerging brand that doesn’t have a strong presence, it just really didn’t catch, OK, why wouldn’t you say a loft and or anything like that? Just but just in general, they’re a loft to you.



But a core is a core. I mean, help me understand it.



There is no logic to my language.



There is no law unless there’s a C when you add the C, then it’s kind of like you carry that two to forty two, which is the universe. But there’s not really complex.



It’s just kind of convoluted though, the idea of which brand would be in that sense a dirigiste point of Fairfield. Well, does it have a strong enough identity on its own to be different? Right now my perception of the way the brands are handling themselves, any brand that wants to fracture off and be itself and have its own ability to help itself go for it.



I mean, they’re trying to they’re trying to juggle too many balls there at one time, I think. And they’re not able to be there.



I think there were brands that could use stronger identities inside some of these portfolios, like in a loft. I think a loft is a brilliant brand that has been underdeveloped, mainly because it was a emerging brand for Starwood prior to the Marriott acquisition. And I don’t think Marriott has seen as much value in a loft as Starwood did. But I think the product itself is really interesting and could have legs as a standalone offering.



That being said, Richard’s also pointing out which, by the way, Richard, if you want to join the show, you can go up if you want to.



Richard, this is everything but Mario, that’s for sure. But the fact that Marriott and Hilton are primarily franchised companies now actually makes it possible. So in old times, you would have seen around this time Marriott and Hilton doing exactly what Omni is doing, where they would be divesting some of their real estate assets to free up capital, to be able to continue to operate through this time. They don’t have that lever to pull now. And so what lever do they have to pull while they can raise debt, which Marriott did?



But you can only raise so much debt on a franchise system that’s dependent on franchise fees. So what’s next? What if they need more and if they need more? Selling off a portfolio of brands to a company like Blackstone makes complete sense. It’s and I think it’s likely to happen.



What do you guys think about the possibility of just a completely new brand emerging out of this that speaks to all the issues that we’ve been having with Airbnb? Like I know there’s some in city centres where they split between residential and hotel rooms already, but usually they’re owned separately. I wonder if we’ll see some brands saying, you know what, it makes sense to maybe lower our room count combined two rooms, add in a kitchen and have like an extended stay element where it’s not necessarily an extended stay hotel, but they have sort of apartments available as well.



So like a domino, like a mixed use.



So they’ve got the hotel floors and they’ve got the residential floors within one building. If it seems like that would be great for some of these big full service concepts in areas where there is more residential needed, perhaps, and then they can change some of their meeting space into an expanded gym or a salon or something like that. So it becomes it kind of answers to both questions so they have more flexibility to attract a different portfolio of guests.



I think you’re more likely to see a hotel convert to a timeshare than you are to see a convert to what you’re talking about. And part of the reason for that is a lot of the places that would need the residential housing. That need is changing. There is a massive migration happening right now where people are leaving dense city centers for less dense areas. So we’re probably at the beginning at the front edge of this, I was like, oh, man, New York hotels, no big deal.



Pull the hotel flag off of it, turn it into residential or turn it into something else. You’ll you’ll get as much out of the asset. Now, you kind of look at it and you look at what’s happening. And I live in one of the areas that’s getting a huge influx. Florida had record months these last two months on home sales. Even with the fact that inventory is so low with us, then we have less than as a state.



We have less than 30 days of home inventory on the market. And it’s the first time that I can remember that that was ever the case. And so and most of that is people migrating into Florida from denser city centers. You’re seeing the same thing happen with Silicon Valley, with all these companies talking about, hey, part of the workforce is going to be able to go permanently remote. You can live wherever you want.



Why stay in San Francisco when you could literally move South Carolina?






But I mean, Battalia, in Australia and their plan is to create a boutique hotel brand taking floors of apartment buildings in cities where they may have lost some residence and taking those rooms off their hands and turning it into a vacation apartment.



Yeah, well, and in Australia, serviced apartments is a very common business. Some of you look at companies like Meriton, which are the skyscrapers of mixed use, residential and serviced apartments, which are basically hotels. That’s a that’s a very common model out there. And it’s quite interesting. It hasn’t really caught on as much here because in in Australia, I would say if you actually want to service departments make up a pretty substantial amount of the inventory and some of these cities in Australia.



Well, I would say if you can get great service and have some sort of a concierge service element to an to it so that you would have somebody to guide you to all the great places and help you can take care of any needs you have with a great option.



Yeah. Yeah, I, I think you are going to see creativity in the real estate asset because I think you’re going to see there’s there’s not going to be a choice otherwise in certain markets, in other markets. I worry like Orlando, I think about the Hyatt right across from the convention center. What the heck are they going to do? Because there’s not enough leisure demand to fill a hotel like that right now. I mean, there’s a you know, and the business demand is looking so bad that even Universal decided to shut down two of their properties that are more focused on the business stay.



So if Universal’s not seeing enough leisure demand to push leisure travelers into their own business hotels, what what is that going to mean for that? Hyatt and there is no other use for that Hyatt like that. Like no one wants to live where that Hyatt is, no one at all. And no one could afford to because the price per square foot that that would need to be would be 20 times the most expensive price per square foot of any other available real estate in the market.



So I look at areas like that and I’m like, man, what’s going to happen? It’s going to just have to change hands. It’s going to have to probably go to the bank and it’s going to then get sold to someone else. And I fear the same thing in Vegas. Know those Vegas properties. There’s not really an alternative use, at least in like downtown Atlanta or in New York City or in Philadelphia or San Francisco. There is other need for the real estate because there is a constriction on land and available real estate.



But in markets like Orlando, I. I worry about what’s going to happen with those buildings.



I’m kind of sorting through some of the stuff that Robert sent over for, because it kind of goes to a theme that you and I were talking about with the X-Men.



I grew up in Ottawa when we talk about Montreal as well. But I mean, that whole area we were talking about the corporate travel drying up and so forth. And it kind of lends itself to a little bit of what we’re talking about is the changing landscape of the modalities.



And there was an article that probably put the link up right now that the airline industry in particular is literally saying corporate travel will never be the same again here, which lends itself to what we’re talking about, where, you know, I grew that in my market here, housing prices are going up.



And it’s like, well, why is?



Because everybody in Miami and everything else says, I don’t have to live here anymore. I’m happy to be here anymore. And remote because of the to do my work and over there is cool. So, you know, I can live by Laurant and, you know, it’s all right.



So I just put in lightning rods.



If you’re going to live near alone, you’re just out of luck. Is the lightning rod at no additional lightning rods are necessary, but that’s fair.



But but to that end, the corporate travel aspect is there. Let’s just say, look, you have to sit beside a stranger. You’re going to have to go over. But that the purpose of travel, the reason why there be so many people traveling is changing. And from the article here and put it up, that Robert hat is very different now in that sense. Here it is. How coverage changing your travel in the future tense.



From our marketing perspective, we have to incorporate that into our it’s a really long like, oh, he left the track on it, Robert, scrub those things.



So so talking to this and I’ve actually talked about this a little bit and some other things I’ve done, but I like four embassy suites and stuff like that that are really feeling pain right now because they’re kind of a middle there, you know, some leisure, but also some light corporate like they’re not big meetings, things like that. This could be a win for them because with the disbursement of work groups, you’re going to there’s going to be a rise in demand for small meeting, you know, for teams getting together as little bits, not entire companies getting together.



And I think you’re going to see that like, you know, there are going to be commonalities like the people from moving from San Francisco because they work for Facebook and Google. They’re all going to go in kind of clusters to similar areas just because of the profile of how they’re going to make decisions.



You know, the thing that drove them to what their career is, is going to be the same type of thing. That’s going to kind of edge how they pick where they want to live. And so they’ll be groupings of them. And that will even make it to where groupings of Google employees who move from San Francisco to wherever are going to want to get together just locally as well. So I think small meetings could be a very interesting landscape moving forward because of this great kind of disbursement of the workforce.






And even with remote travel, you know, you’ll have your small group meetings in certain areas. But there may also once they feel like it’s safe to do so, there may actually be more large meetings. You’re just going to be a huge lull between now and then. I see the article about RTI now.



I saw that this morning pasted in. So RBI has decided remote works great and now they’re selling their corporate headquarters. They’re sending everybody home permanently. And I think that that is to Richard’s point about people trying to get out of office space. That makes sense. You know, now it’s not probably the time to convert to office space unless maybe it’s like we work, you know, type model where people want to get out of their houses a little bit more.



It’s just changing the entire landscape of how the whole country works. And honestly, it’s a shake up I think we’ve needed for quite some time, as painful as it is in between.



You know what? You bring up a very interesting concept, just as you’re talking about this made me think of something totally soucek take a big company and say we’re out of here. There’s no central location that we can gather the Indians around the wagons and all that kind of stuff. And now we still have to have those moments in time where we all have to get together and spend some quality focused like scrum stuff like, OK, let’s just dive into this.



And we’re hard core seven days of everybody, you know, and now all of a sudden a hotel can book itself out, let’s say, OK, X, Y, Z, companies coming in. We’re taking the whole place over. We’re taking all the common spaces over. I mean, this is future tense because obviously we have to get some safety protocols in place by then anyway. And we’re just going to nosedive into this. And this is an annual thing for us.



And we maybe two weeks, who knows? And just it’s a hard core. More isolation focus, think if everybody goes back to their independent operations, and that’s that’s that’s why this has happened before.



So the financial crisis did that to call centers.



So, like, where we have our office is in a hub just outside of Orlando that used to be hundreds of thousands of square feet per building of just call centers. And when the financial crisis hit, it was also around the time tech had caught up where you could do distributed call centers really easily. So none of those companies came back to buildings. So there’s massive empty space in this area because this area was developed to house call centers. And so we’ve seen this before.



And it is it is going to happen like this, this work from home or work from smaller clusters of offices, because there are also there is certain types of work that does require some face to face collaboration. There’s also certain types of personality. I’m one of them. I don’t like to work from home. I like the social aspects of the conversations you have in the break room and things like that. So, I mean, it’s not going to completely die, but it is going to substantially change.



And a lot of jobs that for a long time could have been dispersed will now be unlocked to be dispersed, which again is going to be at the expense of these top cities. You know, this is a problem for San Francisco. This is a problem for New York City. This is a problem for Chicago, because why stay in an incredibly expensive place to live with an incredibly high tax base when your job isn’t the thing tethering you anymore?



Now, I just had a bit of cooler, Ed, against the water cooler on a year, but the aliens, the government said UFOs are real.



You know, you think about some of the other companies, too, that are in markets that are, let’s say, less, less favorable right now.



So there’s one particular very large company that that I won’t name. You can figure out who it is. This largely based out of Seattle.



Well, who and the bloody hell wants to move to Seattle right now?



OK, yeah. Yeah. And so that’s the it’s going to have an interesting impact on a lot of things.



And I’ve and I’ve been kind of watching some of the ones I thought were going to be interesting changes like we should see. We may even see it in this next election. But I think the Electoral College, I think you’re going to see traditional states that were specific political leaning start to mix more. Right. You know, you’re going to see red states turn purple, blue states turn purple because of this mixing, which honestly long overdue. Maybe it’ll actually soften the extremism of the opposite sides of these politics by actually putting people together that think differently.



I mean, imagine that that will come when you live in New York.



You’re in such a good mood that you actually believe that everybody shortly. Let’s think that way. And then you’re shocked to hear on the radio or television something else. It it would be it would be nice to be pretty nice.



People have conflicting beliefs about the way someone is not evil for disagreeing with you.



That’s right. Right.






Actually got Tammy nicely, but mainly because usually the reason I’m disagreeing with you is not because I actually disagree with you just because I’m being argumentative.



Devil’s advocate, Ed.



Yeah, I Maritime’s walking out the door with that and you say, look, what a beautiful sunny day. Is it? Is it really?



Look, this is a question to degree and it’s not specifically around hospitality, but do you think this is going to be a generational thing? Do you think this because everybody in here seems to be consensus that everybody wants that did the social connection and would want to sit around a desk and have the kind of discussions? Do you think that’s going to die out?



Because I do I really do think he’s going to die. I think looking at some of look at my kids, looking at his kids who are slightly older, they don’t they don’t knock on each other’s doors to play, to go out, to socialize and to play games.



They send the message via Xbox saying you go online, you want to play this. And they seem to be so much more comfortable with the the the integration of virtual contact and virtual relationship.



So, well, we’ve all grown up with this kind of the sort of unspoken knowledge that you get more done in person than you do on a screen 10 times, 50 times more productive. Is that just my generation in 15, 10, 15 years from now, when it’s when the children leaving school are going into the world of business? I think anymore. I mean, they’ve experienced they’ve watched your parents have eight months of Zoome cold. Is it going to be need for this?



I mean, I said a couple of weeks ago, and I think it was Stuart who laughed at me when I said business travel scuppered.



And I do think in the long term I was laughing because of your choice of word.



I think in the long term it’s a skip it. I think this is eventually going to die out. We aren’t going and people aren’t going to travel to do what they want to, doing it that way because everybody’s seen the movie or read the book.






Player one Say we’re literally talking about this movie right now, that your world is I mean, I’ve got an Oculus quest.



I play games on that thing. It’s amazing, but it’s not that far off.



I mean, just, by the way, what’s right after a ready player? One is Wally. So, yeah.



So I think we need this, too. From a psychological aspect, though, because I both agree and disagree. I think that the new generation will be way more comfortable working remotely. Right. But I don’t believe that in-person meetings and things like that are going to completely go away, because even if I look at my 10 year old stepdaughter, she is super bummed that she’s doing so well online. She feels basically depressed because she can’t go see her friends.



She can’t hang out with them. And so even though they might send a message to say, hey, do you want to play? I think that we see that more right now because that’s their only option. But when you really sit down with them, they miss seeing their friends in person where you said you were there.



To my mind, you know, they are old, are doing they’re playing virtually road roadblocks and things like that with their friends. They’ve built houses with their friends and are decorating them. And they’re they’re getting some value out of that. But I agree with what we’re saying. Both of my children are so incredibly excited to go back to school next week because they miss just the stupid downtime. Right. That that doesn’t happen even in a structured play. Like when you bring someone over, they’re generally like, hey, you’re only here for an hour, so do something.



Whereas like, you know, the unstructured kind of interaction, I think is what they’re craving because both of my kids are like, we want to go back to school, we want to get out of this house. And they consider I was explaining this to my wife yesterday because my daughter said, like, I’ve been home nonstop and my wife, like we’ve been home. One day this week, we were at the beach, we went to Crayola. We did this.



And I said, yeah, but Andrea, like when Harper is with us, no matter where we are, that’s home.






It’s she misses being with other people and misses that aspect of it. So, yes. Well, they’re more comfortable with this digital interaction. Humans are a pack animal.



You know, it’s never going to it’s never going to completely go away. It’s going to show up in different ways. But the complete isolation is is never going to occur because we’re not wired that way as as beings, as a species.



I get that. I get that.



But just to follow the point, if if you segment business, business and then your personal life, if you I mean, if you do your business, like virtually and you have your one on one connection and when you’re one on one time with your real life friends, but your social circle, your family and your physical friends, the segmentation there is you get your hate of dopamine from personal contact here, but this can all be done virtually still.



You don’t need this. You don’t need to trouble for meetings to sign contract.



I actually disagree with that because one of the things that keeps me coming back to this industry are the connections I’ve made with the people in this industry that I would never have met in my personal circles. I met them because of what my job is. But I’ll also be honest with you.



I don’t think I’d ever go on vacation with them, but I do enjoy getting together with them at events where we seem to be part of this.



And this goes from older, younger generation. The pendulum swing is those of you that have younger kids now see the reality of what they can be doing with technology in the future. Tense of dialogue and interaction and the need and the concentration.



I’ll throw in the old person’s version of this silence in business. When you’re in a room and you are uncomfortable and you have nothing to say and you don’t know what to say and they don’t know what to say, sometimes the most creative process out of that. What you’re talking about when you use interaction in the break room, the the accidental dialogue that goes along with the lack of intensity. I only have an hour, so I want to build a house virtually with you, but rather we’re sitting around doing nothing.



What do you do? I don’t know what you want to do. Next thing you know, inspiration comes out of that dialogue comes out of that creativity, comes out of that. And also disagreement comes out of that which creates solutions in its own way. So all of that comes from the interpersonal relationship. Now to Dean’s point, and I do agree with this, there is a virtual component of this that we have yet to drop into the future tense that may allow us to still have that where you are virtually engaged, although not physically.



But that allows for what I just mentioned as to the dialogue back and forth, like, I don’t know, I don’t want to fly a spaceship today where, you know, I don’t know you to do. You just sit around doing nothing, but by doing nothing, you come up with something better. So there’s still that.



But I don’t understand, like, the only place I’m hung up on that is the completely dying. So first of all, in the travel industry, nothing ever dies, OK? There is zombies in this industry that have lived on forever, that have been way past their need and yet still are fairly large companies and fairly large business models because nothing dies and travel nothing.



OK, so what will it change and will it not look at all like it does today? Because let’s face it, there are a lot of road warriors that are road warriors because their job initially needed that way back when.



But it’s not necessary anymore. So will I see it? Will you see people like that travel substantially less for business? Yes, but I don’t think I don’t think meetings and I don’t think conventions and I don’t think any of that’s going to die. But I do think that there will be a cause and effect. Road warriors lessening their travel will actually probably make them attend large scale meetings more often than they would have previously, because they’re not getting any face to face time with certain levels of customer and things like that.



And that’s their chance to do it.



So I think business travel will exist.



It will probably be a similar size economy as it is today. It’s just going to be done differently. It will be across very different benefactors than it previously was.



And the other thing, too, is that we’re not really talking about maybe because it’s business travel. So it seems weird, but the importance of touch, like we need to touch as humans and a lot of places now you get to know your business colleagues and you greet them with a hug instead of just a handshake or something like that. So part of that comes from those in-person meetings in person school for the kids. So I don’t foresee all in person going away.



In fact, if it does, I want to move to another planet because we’re going to see so many deeply rooted psychological issues if people are not interacting face to face, that it’s going to be a scary place also to be very cold and distant like that.



But you have to share experiences, the common ground, grab a drink at the bar, the end up singing, dancing at pool table. You know, it doesn’t happen virtually. No. I mean, then I’m thinking of the time that you and I, we haven’t done it yet.



But anyway, just so you know, I’m not going to go on. You know, I’ve been a remote employee for. Oh, goodness. Eight years, maybe more so remote. Remote working is not new to me. But I will tell you that that is the one thing that I really miss is even if you just have a general question, being able to stand up over your cubicle and say, hey, hey, what do you do with this being able to have that type of as opposed to sending an email or a chat or whatever the around the water cooler conversation?



What are people doing in their lives? You have no idea. And even as a speaker, I spoke at many events and, you know, as a speaker, you look out in the crowd and you read the crowd a little bit. Right. What what’s working, what’s not. And you can read that crowd really hard to do that on a webinar, even on a zoom, where you’ve got like our windows here. Imagine you have this with one hundred people.



Really hard to get a zoom call that same way. So there’s just a lot of interaction that you can’t get from them then.



I disagree because I’ve been in front of a group and all I get is a blank stare all the time and I’m so used to it now that zipper was down.



But that’s another thing entirely glazed over look like what the hell is he talking about there on the points you guys made?



I don’t think it’s a good thing. I don’t think it’s a positive thing. It’s all to for people to become. I mean, you’re right. It’s a slippery slope to wolly. It really, really is. But I think the way I’m like my my wife works education and my wife’s a teacher and everyone gets a laptop and everyone gets remote courses and everything is done so that you don’t have to actually meet a teacher. You can you have the teacher’s personal email address, you have recorded lessons, this is how they’re getting brought up that you don’t need.



It’s almost been suggested they don’t need to contact with it. You can get everything you need from behind a screen now.



You can get all the tangibles, but the intangibles of being forced to interact with people who are are mean to you, being forced to witness other people being treated unfairly. A lot of these things develop your moral compass. It’s not just your parental training. It’s not just your familial training. There are times in your life that you are either part of or witnessed things that you only would be part of or witness if you were forced together with other people that do develop the core of your humanity.



And you can’t digitize that.



I mean, or it would be really weird, like, oh, hey, now it’s time for you to go get teased. So we’re doing your digital teasing session this morning to help toughen you up a bit.



And that I want to go on.



You clarify that, because I was going to a whole different direction when you mention I disagree now in life, like in the US, but in the UK, you have massive anti-bullying anti digital show.



So little happens, it still happens. But you’re still exposed to that.



You still see that it’s a different it’s a different scenario because actually it’s worse when it’s digital, because it’s faceless. People are braver when they’re persona is not tied to it. Just look at Twitter, Twitter full of negativity where you have a lot of the people behind that probably are fairly nice people that just have this weird persona when there’s no accountability to who they are.



But my point is they’re still exposed that you’re still you get put. And we have gone way off a tangent of. I do.



And I think a better analogy would be saying that you get the nutrition of food without the flavor and taste and enjoyment of it. You don’t get the experience of enjoying getting it.



It’s like a meal replacement. Yeah, it’s like Weight Watchers, but only worse.



You know something for those of us that have a partner or family or social circle already. But if you’re if you’re a young person or maybe you’re just like me and you want to make friends in the social circle, wherever you are, there is just something like going to another place and getting to know people and then and then really in-depth. Well, and there are obviously a lot of people, married people that they work with at one point or another.



I would hate to be single in time without going through and have somebody have a place where I can interact really face to face with that.



You could point to it, though, back when when matched and everybody else and whatever the other earliest ones were came out. Those of us that met our significant other our better half never could see how that could have happened electronically for other people. Like how do you how do you put enough information in about you and many of them to find out that there’s some correlation and then you have to go through the process of meeting and greeting and all this other stuff to me.



Back in the day, I was just drunk at a bar, so he still was around at two o’clock. But that was just me.



You know your point, Laura? And they didn’t find somebody online and get in a relationship online without first meeting in person.



I’m saying that transition was a unique one. So we’re talking about the same kind of unique transition in the future tense, like how will we evolve? We’re even lesser personal engagement has been pointing out.



And that is there to do what you need to do. But there’s still a requirement of some aspect of that to be in their lives, because the part that I’m worried about is the the echo bubble that we create for ourselves in social media right now, that we’re only surrounded physically by friends that nurture and our family that nurture us and is supportive of us and sure, the perspective of us and so forth. We’re not going to be trained, as Ed says, for the bullies out there to say, no, my penis is better than European.



And even being digital as it is and the pain that it has, it’s the did you get your ass beat by physically by somebody because they disagreed with you and you disagreed with them and they punched you?



You know, so I’m going to turn this back around to hotels and try and get a drink. You have to telemarketing. I mean, I did a tangent.



I did things with the article I write. So they sell off their corporation. Everybody’s working remotely. Do we not think that that actually has the potential to lead to more business for hotels? Because you’re still going to have even the smaller group meetings right now. Maybe the sales team needs separately all together. Or the accounting team has a once a month lunch where they get together or those types of things. Do we not see that there’s a potential?



Well, yes, the you’re not you’re not maybe having quite as much business travel, right?



I do think business travel is going to shrink a bit. I don’t think it’s going to go away. And I think that’s for some of us that the scupper that’s gone. I don’t think it’s gone. I think it’s going to change. But do we not think that this could actually have a positive effect in the long run?



Once the safety protocols and we have a virus and I mean, we have a vaccine and the virus goes away and all those things that could this could actually be a benefit to hotels.



I do think it could have more travel in the future because of everything that you said to me, but also because if I if I were working from home, I may be working from anywhere. And that means I can go someplace for three weeks if I want to work during the day. I would enjoy a different local atmosphere in the evening and on the weekends.



That’s lots of business travel. That’s a pleasure. What are you talking about?



That blazer, that even blazer. If it is easier, because I’m going I’m I’m working. That’s not a part of mine. That’s not a part of my business. I’m not going for business reasons. But my, my, my my husband and my dog can enjoy the lovely surroundings of some other place.



Well, also, we’re talking about the fact we make the assumption that everybody hates living where they work. That’s not true. There’s a portion of us probably that don’t like living where they are because of work being tethered to them. And they will make the move that we’re talking about. And then there’s other people go, hey, this place thinned out pretty good. I like staying here, you know, and they’re going to want to around. Yeah.



I mean, you’re talking about this travel thing that people might gather together on a regular basis, like I mean, simply for the weekly meeting. Let’s get in the same room. And they don’t have a corporate office anymore because it was dissolved and the hotel fits a perfect bill like I’m going Fridays is is Rotary Day. You know, we’re going to go to have a rotary meeting, you know, and they show up and it’s an all day thing and you’re in the same room and you collaborate with the people that didn’t make it, but you’re all still in the same general proximity.



So you still gather and then you have your larger gatherings where people are being brought in because it’s that time of year for us to have our quarterly or semi-annual or whatever, and we have our big gathering for everybody to be into. So, yeah, it will change. I do think the business will be like that in some ways.



Yeah, but one thing is for certain. If you currently have no way to have a hybrid meeting that is partially with remote people and partially with people in your meeting room, you better start working on that right now because that is definitely going to stay, because I think there going to be more of a sensitivity to high risk populations and things like that want to participate but can’t attend. And so I think the hybrid meeting is going to be a huge outcome of what’s going on here.



And by the way, Lou, thank you for keeping the dialogue with Madeline, Virginia, about the roof space since I’ve been there. Chad, off to the side, we really haven’t addressed much of their conversation. I apologize, Madeline, Virginia for that. Virginia for start that with what was the cost factor associated with common space? And you came back well, with about the the yield ability of it and you’re hoping that been given away. And then Madeline comes back and Madeline is the de facto woman about weddings.



I know Madeleine for many years and she is brilliant when it comes to solving the ability for weddings to be gathered and how to coordinate. And she has been in that space. I almost I think all we’ve ever known her. So and that’s been quite a while.



So thank you for being with us today as well.



So, yeah, that was just the corporate conversation. Thanks, Ben, for bringing us down to the rabbit hole. Drink this, eat that, whatever.



All right, guys, sorry.



Was there any evidence before I drank anything else that Robert shared with us that there was any other topic that anybody want to bring in that I know I’d ask them if it had anything in particular they wanted to bring into the conversation today. Already did.



Well, thanks for bringing everything to show and tell today soon we’re touching on the topic of budgeting at some point, given the title.



Yes, I did bring in and this has been adead. This is a little reflection of our conversation yesterday with Canada about Canada.



By the way, Lauren and I addressed the entire country. We did we did it in the open and just the entire country was there for us. And we talked to everybody actually. We had some we had some really engaged people from Canada. And I think there’s a possibility he joined us today as well because they heard pontificate on great stuff. And then I was just there for candy.



And what a difference what a difference they’re getting today. Yeah, but we are entering because as we always like to joke, we’re the only industry that has a season for this budget.



We’re entering into the first roll of what budget is supposed to be for us going towards twenty, twenty one. And it’s not a stationary thing. I mean, historically, for me, from what I’ve ever used to do, I basically produce three budgets, which was the one I hope that I got, the one that I probably end up getting, the one that’s somewhere in the middle that we can hopefully get to the this is what I mean by budgeting with my clients right now is multiplicities every day.



It’s a it’s a daily variation based on which channel is producing, which market we’re chasing, what demographics are moving, and then to know whether or not we have to to dry up or shift or move how much investment we’re doing into the long term, you know, content thing. We’ve had this on the show. We talked about the fact that our websites and who we are, what we are, is an answer system at this point. It’s not about selling rate and dates.



It’s about answering questions that our guests have about us for them to make travel decisions for those that are we know that we’re dealing with a unique segmentation of traveler right now. Those that are the basically the low risk, they don’t they’ll see this as a risky thing for them to travel and those that have to travel. But there was a whole section of travel that is leaving right now that waits for that safety level that they’re willing to be comfortable with to make the decision to travel.



And we don’t want to and had made this a brilliant point yesterday. Don’t let your CRM data go dead. You know, keep in constant communication with them for the aspirational travel, the future travel, all of that.



So you have to budget for that.



You have to you have to spend money making sure that that stays alive.



How do you balance that with actual cash flow and targeting that you’re doing right now?



Hmm. I think what we’re seeing from some of our clients is unsurprising caution, but talk about segmentation, learn from USA is not only not only people who who think there is a low risk to travel, but people who think there is a low risk to travel, whose countries are allowing them to travel.



So you have it’s not only, oh, I want to travel the country, I want to go to say I’m OK to travel to you because I feel like I’m OK to travel to you.



I think I look at your country go absolutely not, because you guys are rampant with disease and you have to. What we’re essentially playing is whack a mole with geotagging. I feel like this week. Yeah, we can spot subjects. You ought to know you guys have shut your borders right now. OK, well, it’s like a massive game of risk and you’re just moving mocking budgets around the world constantly.



And what we’re finding is a clients that may have been a little bit more laid back and not laid back, but less involve more trusting and more.



We can rely on the results because we previously have suddenly found the send button on emails. And it’s just a quick, quick, just quick question, just quickly. What would you call this? What we’re doing this because the pressures they were under are flowing down down onto them and that obviously they flow on to us as well.



So not only are we playing whack a mole with geotag and the kind of office because they’re changing as well. I mean, one of our our clients it towards the Caribbean, they have to have bulbul countries, then larger bubble countries and then smaller countries.



And those schedule the time and they don’t know when it’s going to happen. So what we’re finding is the segmentation isn’t just who you think you should be appetizing to and who you think the clients are who are going to stay. It changes daily based on if they can or can’t go easy.



I’m going to win for just a minute. There’s a fundamental change that has to happen in our industry, the decision processes within our the companies that run hotels.



What you mean a 12 person committee forever decision is now a fact?



Pretty much.



It’s the. Hey, guys, I’m going to pull you out on this one. Metasearch is getting twenty five to one right now for you, we should load up on this because while the getting’s good and it’s going to eventually diminish anyway or change what this is where we can make some money.



So I spend the next two weeks talking about, you know, what the value proposition is through through the committees of decision process, like, OK, owners, where I literally get down to the post, like if I give you if you give me a dollar and I give you twenty five dollars back, how many dollars would you want to give me.



Oh a lot of them.



Then why don’t you give me the twenty five bucks and you know it’s not going to stay that way because obviously you can talk to more technical about this than I ever could about this, about the fact of voice and presence and budget amount. And you know, the fact that we’re getting that returns based on how much money we put towards it and how much exposure we’re given to and all that kind of stuff. But the reality of it is, is that these things pop up and they’re opportunistic and you need to jump on them by the time you get the decision process and the direction to get onto to do it.



That opportunity has changed, diminished or gone.



And this goes to the market because your point, you vendors that one minute it’s let’s target this G.O. and by the time the decision to get the funding, the targeting, the correction of the campaigns that Joe’s gone.



And wait a minute now we’re gonna go to there and you’re chasing this down, not really benefiting from what you’re telling them, you know, about that market opportunity and the response to the decision making process has to grow in a speedy fashion.



It has to get faster. You look like you.



Yeah, well, I submit to you no attribution, right? The age old question comes into play here because what happens? I mean, it happens more often then than I can count is the owner looks at the bottom line. And yes, someone came through three or four different channels but book direct because they finally bookmarked and came on book direct. And so the owner goes, well, why am I paying all this money for marketing? Because everybody’s booking DURET.



So let’s discuss everything right now.



I understand you’re thinking through all of the other components then.



The other thing, I think that is a challenge for hotels. I was just talking with one of our our non hospitality sales reps the other day. You have the hotel, so you your GM, your doors, everyone else who’s involved, you have your management company, you have the brand, you have the ownership, you have ownership, you have the consultant. Right. So there’s four or five, six different people involved, not even counting, getting up to the twelve of when you count two or three from each one of those entities.



And they don’t always have the same priorities or the same. Right. I mean, the goal is to make money, but they don’t always have the same goals. And so those competing goals, how do you work through that? So I think until we can really help hotels understand attribution and funneling and not just, hey, my your dollar for twenty five example, which is a great example, but even more holistically. Hey you know what, this channel up here, while you’re not going to see a direct return when you look at your Google Analytics, e commerce, tracking, reporting, but we can see that this is funneling down and hitting you that twenty five return when you’re down here.



So let’s look at how we’re we’re budgeting for you to make sure that you’re continuing to grow.



The other thing, I think in a in a normal environment, an election year would be insanity for budget season. I mean, that’s typically we’re not in a normal environment. I’m not going to say I hate new normal. I hate unprecedented. I don’t know why I hate this term. This is a crazy time and on top of everything we have going on here in the US, at least we have an election year and that throws a whole nother monkey wrench.



And I think right now people are scared. Right. And I’m seeing a lot of no decision because they’re afraid to make one. But I would say this to hotels. You got to start thinking about making some decisions and and do something right.



And I think, you know, it makes sense as you’re looking at your budget assumed that things aren’t going to get better for the next 12 months, make your plans based on that so that you can be here when all of this business we’re talking about, how much of an influx of business we’re going to have when things open back up. It’s just a matter of getting to the other side of the moment. And I think sometimes we get so far into our own heads that we feel like this is going to go on forever and life is over the way that we knew it.



And even if there is a new normal, which I also hate Tammy or, you know, whatever whatever comes out of this, you have to be positioned with certain things. You have to have a good product. You have to have good service, like spend your time focused on that and making sure that you can take care of your debt service between now and then at your current business levels. Those smart, strategic, profitable decisions, I think you bring to a great point, too.



We’re at a heightened set of constant. It’s like playing if you’re an athlete playing a never ending game and you’re never pulled out of the game and you’re as soon as you’re done with one set, you get the next set or you get the next play, you get the next play. And there’s never a breakout moment for this. And we’re all of us going through this mental fatigue program of, OK, what’s going on today?



You know, that’s got to do something right. Yeah.



And we have this heightened thing. And also, I think what’s contributed to us as well is we have been building up. We make comments about this, but there’s a truth to this everyone. Incompetence rises to its own level and there is a lot of very incompetent people in charge of stuff that they should never have been in charge of. And now we’re facing when we’re asking for decisions from some people, they don’t know how to make the decision.



They were they were good at using the terminology, the buzz words. They knew how to be friendly to the right people to get whatever they wanted. And I’m not saying all people, but all industries have the systemic issue. It’s not just our industry, but there are people in positions that don’t make decisions, don’t have the ability to make decisions and don’t want to make those decisions because they’ll be held culpable and possibly responsible and then they would lose whatever it is that they gain by being where they were.



And so to your point, Tammy, you get these layers within our industry. They add on top of it where an agency, any one of those links with what I just described is a bad link. An agency that only talks about within its own service profile never gives a truthful answer to its client because it only answers to what it can sell, not what it should do, what it’s capable being done, what it can sell to their clients that they can do for themselves.



So if somebody outside brings that into them, their first filter is, do we do that or do we want to do that? Can we do that? Can we charge for it or do we want to recommend it?



I’m not saying everybody is going to disagree just a little slightly. They’re going to tell customers actually with products where we have what they needed, didn’t realize it. You know what? You’re better off going.



You’re not that company. That’s what I’m saying. You guys are great at that. You bring great content to the market. You’ve shown up and said, let’s help you with stuff that we don’t even do. But we know people that do this. Here’s some stuff. You’re not that person. You’re not that company. Benzi Company then only does what do you want to do?



Look, I speak exactly to that point that you’re making, Lauren, because I’m not dumb. So I’m going to plug myself here for a moment. That’s why I started Basecamp. Mother dot com is because what we have in the industry is a situation where individuals have cut staff. So if you had an e Commerce Department at all, you probably got rid of them, which means that some other guy who was before doing another job has now got to be cross trained with how to run all of your digital marketing metasearch include it.



Right. More likely scenario is that that hotel now says, well, you know what? I don’t have anybody to do this. I’m going to outsource it to an agency. And they’ve got their cousin who runs a dual digital agency out of the garage, whatever. And they say, hey, Joe, can you do this metasearch thing for me? And he said, well, yeah, yeah, sure, I can do that. I’ve been doing a search engine marketing for all this time and they think, OK, yeah, let’s do that.



But the fact is that no, that’s not the same thing because it’s not just Google and there has to be that cross channel optimization diversifications Stewart was talking about earlier, all those different things that we have that happening within our industry where now people are trying to cover roles. Are they in their defense? It’s not that they’re stupid. They just weren’t supposed to do this in the first place. Yes, right. You know, this just isn’t what they were supposed to do.



So how do they then fill in those gaps?



And I’m just I’m putting out a negative example in play just of the fact that there are people within that chain that you referred to, Tammy, of the ownership versus the management company versus the asset management company that’s reflecting the owners. There’s this this. They don’t want to be the person that makes the final decision to be held responsible for it. As much as they may be obligated to get the answer from above or differently than themselves. You know, you can’t work outside the brand framework.



So there is a Mayakoba that has to go along with brand. You can’t work outside what ownership says, his parameters of when it comes to this much money to be spent or this I need to be giving the final approval for that. So the asset management company can’t make the decision. They have to go to the ownership and make the reflection to it. We create these own internal barriers. My complaint to the whole process is, was, is that any organization you should look at those current barriers and see how can we find them out, streamline them or regulate certain thresholds that decisions can be made without the entire gang of people having to go through the process of it?



Yeah, I completely agree. I also think that some costs have to be looked at as a cost per reservation or reservation cost more than a marketing cost. If I am able to do something and I can get twenty five dollars back, stop complaining that I’m spending ten thousand dollars any time over and over again. Look what I’m getting. And although I do think that sometimes you have to take into account what the cancellation factor is going to be on those future reservations.



Sometimes in order to let’s say you have made a feature listing description of your hotel that’s coming up, for example.



And the result that they give you is going to be on the whole corporate fraud, not your portion of the fraud. And you have to factor that and cancellation in order to give the crew market a true barometer for what is happening.



But, you know, please don’t tell me that I should only spend five thousand a month when fifteen thousand a month give me three times more revenue. And it doesn’t really work like that because there is some good management, you know, the more you spend.



But yeah, give us the flexibility.



And another thing I really agree with, Lilly said, thank you for saying take care of your products and your service because there are so many things that you can do that would actually cost money. And and social media is one of them. It’s the last thing that you should not be doing when it’s free. And if you spend, you can spend just a little little, little, tiny bit of money and you can see the results. So why wouldn’t you do that?



Focus on that and, you know, reduce sites or social media. They’re user generated content. You have to be focused on how can I get the most out of them without spending a single dollar?



I agree with Sidel, but I would also add on that we need education for all of the revenue generation teams around flowthrough because sometimes twenty five to one isn’t the whole story either. Cater, you don’t have to look at. OK, how so. I got this much revenue with that. One hundred and fifty dollar ADR. Was that one room at a five hundred dollar ADR. What is the cost to me for occupying that room. What was the booking fee.



What was the staffing that was required for that room. So you really get down to the net level because that’s what we should be measuring against marketing spend is the flow through at the end, not just the top line revenue or else you can revenue yourself right out of business.



I was trying to put math into the equation. I’ll I’ll add an old school term that I’m using in my budget process right now, and that’s called crash kits.



And if anybody that’s been in the hotels industry long enough, hotels used to have what was called a crash kit when electricity would go off and so forth, that you always had the daily arrivals on a printed sheet, that you had the methodology of knowing who was in house, you had the methodology. And this goes back to his credit card machine that you could slide across the carbon to go and charge people because your credit card machine was down. That was a crash kit.



And what I’m incorporating in my my budgeting process is right now, I refused to do it, but. Literally have told clients, I refuse to do an annual budget, my budget process is 90 days out right now. That’s a max I’m going out because to your point, I’m planning the same planet to being bad. Just it’s bad. But what I’m adding to my budget component is durability of no income. Prescot How long if I lose everybody for how long can we operate?



What funding is necessary for us to know what we’re doing and how much can I keep that money in that queue forward so that if all of a sudden we turn into a hotspot and bingo, everybody’s gone, how long can we keep the business business without income?



And to your point about the cancellations, that’s a that’s a given. Every channel should have a cancellation percentage put into it factored so that you’re looking at more true revenue contribution than you are.



Look at me when Bairo us, you know, it’s like no, because you get you get a 40 percent cancellation in New York and you know better than I do, you can get up to 80 percent cancellation third party channels because everybody’s playing the dicey game of six seven reservations and back in the day before they would cancel the five and leave the one.



So you have to factor that into the process. You can’t walk around looking at all the confusion I’m doing. It’s not my fault that they canceled. No, it is your fault because you’re responsible for it. So I’ve been adding that into the budgetary process. And to add to the other earlier conversation and a microcosm of allowing tolerances financially, the victory Mariotte, which I’m proud to say in Canada five years back, was the number one Mariotte in the Marriott system because of one simple thing that they did, and that was the GM decided that every employee could make a twenty dollar decision without approval.



Whatever it took for customer satisfaction, they could go up to twenty dollars without asking a single soul. Sure, they could abuse that nobody did. What they did do was when they heard that that a guest what needed a certain type of toothpaste or that you need a certain amenity. They ran out to the store and grabbed it and brought it back for the guest. And that reflection of the reviews and so forth put them as number one Marriott in the world for that year because it was two thousand.



See, and that’s the kind of process they say, not a problem, people don’t abuse it, but it gives them enough for one moment that that that’s what the Ritz Carlton reputation is based on. And that is reflected across all the hotels because they did something for one person.



Yeah. And I don’t know the dollar amount, but Disney does the same thing. Their employees are given the flexibility. You know, you see a kid and they drop their ice cream cone. Go get him a new one. You see a family there. Trouble, take care of it. Right. And you’re spot on. That kind of stuff makes for great reviews, which ultimately leads to more reservations.



And that tolerance, I think, is what I’m saying. It needs to be at least as a temporary solution, about a permanent one within our infrastructure, within our industry. For all these layers that we have to engage with. There should be a target that if you’re performing at this, this, this, this level, there is no need to go through five different decision trees to get the answer of approval. It’s allowable or should be functional also with the fact that if it doesn’t work out that you’re not beaten to death for having fallen off, you tried you think was something to do.



It did not work. What was learned from it is just as important as whether it was successful to. So absolutely.



You know, made the way I approach it. If someone did something that is not the choice I would have made, I would think that that employee for me. Thank you. You definitely I can see that you try to do the right thing and but it’s somehow it didn’t have the the best outcome. Let’s talk about what happened and let’s work out another option that you could try next time that will possibly have a much better solution. Never berated an employee who is trying to do the right thing.



It’s sometimes an employee, not not any that I agree with, but sometimes an employee will do something for their own reasons that have nothing to do with helping the guest or helping the company. That’s another story.



But if if they were trying to do the right thing and you know that free will, 95 percent of the time work to the advantage of the company and against all odds, and you’ll just have you know, sometimes you’ll make a mistake and that’s just human.



That’s fine. That’s fine. Lauren, you might remember a couple of weeks ago, I pulled out a book from a bookshelf, The Culture Code, and I preach it to anyone that will listen. One of the chapters in there is about a restaurant and how they build culture in a restaurant. And one of the things the manager stays at the stop every shift is I want you to bankruptcies with your generosity.



And they were very, very highly on the restaurant reviews because they were so generous, because the staff was empowered to just make it a fantastic place.



Like, I imagine a deluge in a restaurant, if I’m going to be is something that you should be talking about every day with your employees, as well as kindness and compassion. And it will change your financial outcomes.



I could tell you a true story. When I bought my first restaurant, I was pained pain physically.



I with my stomach was in the knot when I handed the key over to my hired manager to the restaurant because me as a manager, I remember many a day making a bigger than normal sandwich because I could or have a beer behind the bar while I was doing paperwork because I could. And I was thinking because it was my money that bought all that stuff now. And I’m giving to some of this problem to the same thing that I did. The person to gave me a key to run their restaurant.



And I did that and they did not defy the trust and they didn’t hurt the business. And I didn’t hurt the business when I did it. And then the next best thing that I did was every supervisor that I had got a key to the restaurant, because at times there was a need where the manager or managers at that point were not available to do what they were doing. But the supervisors were capable of doing it, but they didn’t have the means to do it because they never keep.



And I’m sitting there going, oh, my gosh, the trust that that represents was reflected back.



Their commitment to the quality of what the restaurant was doing grew exponentially compared to when I didn’t give them a key.



I mean, if I could give a key to every employee, I would have at that point. But it was mindless at that point. But the trust by doing that, we forget that most people are very good people, that, you know, there’s always going to be bad decisions, there’s always going to be bad people. But that’s not, unfortunately, a lot of things that happen like that. There’s a lot of good people to do a lot of good things more than than the reverse.



We like to think so nowadays, it’s sometimes in question, but, you know, so, yes, to your point that that trust in that commitment from everybody is profound.



I threw a little Lincoln sorry, the one with Stewart here, but he didn’t. And that was the whole study about consumers willingness to download an app because one, Stewart is incredibly adamant about apps compared to Web based applications.



And two, he’s right in that space because he has one of the best ones out there right now when it comes to keyless entry and so forth. Then you guys have like a skunk works secret super secret development division with people in a little basement doing development, stuff like that.



We think it’s not a basement so much as it is like a skyscraper, like James Bond walks out kind of stuff.



If you ever saw the guy out of the call and James Bond. And so what we’ve been working on a few pieces of technology recently, and we’ve sent it on the show.



And I don’t think I’ll ever stop being more relevant than it is now. That was a time for little people in basements to build technologies now because you’re solving problems that even though you had like eight months ago and you’re having to not cut corners but learn how to digitally trim them so that you’re making the most of the time and the resources you’ve got.



And so, yeah, I don’t think we’re the only people working on some interesting things.



I know other the companies in our space are also working on interesting things as well.



I’m quite excited to see what people are going to come out with some honest yourselves from all this.



It’s it’s amazing, some of the diversification.



Interestingly enough, there’s always been an advocate of QR codes, and I had a lot of people that put food on me like that was a dead man walking technology. And so when I kept saying, yeah, that’s fine, but it still has applicability. And the reason also been, you know this firsthand. Whenever you go to China, everything is a QR code, TV shows because there’s so much linguistics to go on. That is Diversey QR is going to be sometimes can translate what you’re looking at, you know, that’s it.



Because that’s all you can ever put in English or something. And so now that cars are everywhere, again, I have all of the people that were arguing with me that it was a dead language, so to speak, in a dead technology going, hey, you called it right, because it now has come back into favor because it’s a solution to problems. You just said that we would have thought we had to not touch a menu anymore at a restaurant, you know?



Well, like, my husband and I went to a restaurant with two Kiwan things on the table.



And because of the way lighting was worth nothing, we were until we picked it up and I told him and he said we were working TAMBINI at first.



At first when I would go out this before covid when we go out and it was too dark to read, I would be just pick something off like this. Now I’ve got an order of like, screw it, here comes the flashlight.



Meanwhile, everybody around the world, if you will, the cuts to work, if you shine a light on them because all the camera picks up is the light.



It’s a light on blind people looking for food in a restaurant, touching every totally unaware of the spotlight on the Cyclopes light.



I’m getting there. So I put a link earlier with the chat Apple put out. They’ve been putting out a series of movies which have been kind of interesting. This last one was uniquely interesting and it goes back to one of the earlier conversation.



I just wanna make sure people can look at it is it talks. It’s trying to feature its technologies for solutions, for working at home.



But it showed some really interesting interpersonal dynamics in that process and that that movie is six minutes long, long one.



But it broke it down into where it was showing its technologies, like scanning, you know, taking a picture of something in the making a scan out of it worked as a video recognition and so forth, or being able to share new tasks. But it did show the dynamics that we tend to forget are happening in the real world right now about interpersonal play as to who does what in a team environment, where inspiration comes from, how does it work?



Who leads, who follows the complexities of our personal world where kids are people taking care of kids at home and trying to focus on working?



You can’t focus on work when the kids are like, you know, dropping stuff down the toilet where just it’s really neat video in that sense that that was really brought to light some realities as to what we talk about, because we’re talking about people that can do this, like what we do now. There’s a whole lot of people that still have to stand behind the counter and handle a register or cook a meal or serve a meal or deliver a product or sell a product.



You know, there’s still a lot of people that have to show up physically for. Work, we don’t often remember that in some context. But there’s a lot of people that don’t anymore, and that’s the people that we’re referring to when it comes to that.



So, yeah, just it was a neat it was neat video that I forgot to mention when I put it in there for you with those clear windows actually are effective because that seems like that would be incredibly helpful in a restaurant or a hotel. I think so.



Any scientific I know that there’s some as we get more involved in this process, like Delta does not allow for mass that have vents on them.



The ones that light, you just exhale from them because it is not as helpful in protecting other people, because you’re venting out your breath compared to the going both in and out through the filter process, and that might be something that changes in time.



I’ve heard that the clear ones are because they don’t really filter anything.



The air just flows out the side then that that that that’s a criticism of it.



But I think that’s a fixable.



I mean, if anybody smart intelligence know how to make that better, seal around the mouth or something like that, whatever, because I agree with you not knowing if somebody’s smiling or sticking their tongue out that she was is a problem and they’re a little hard of hearing like I am.



You couldn’t really make out.



People are saying, yeah, Tammy, I’m sorry.



You say I was going to say the exact same thing that poor people are hard of hearing or the deaf community. Those are very helpful because when they can read lips with mass know they can’t read your lips anymore, you know, they’re easier to detect the feeling of the guest.



So you can see if there is something that they need by their expression.



But that goes also into our Web building and content as well. I did a podcast recently featuring a tool that translates, by the way, you know the show when we’re done with it, I translate it into subtext, into ten more languages.



And ironically, we’re getting a lot of positive comments I get from the people who come back and saying thank you and I run mostly Filipino.



I mean, I put a lot of Filipinos in hospitality. They’re amazing.



I just I mean, they sincerely I got more than than than I don’t want to guess about five or six different comments maybe from people from that it being in Filipino.



I’m like because right now we do the Hindu, Filipino, Japanese, Korean. Then we also have Dutch, my wife, Spanish, English, German, Italian and Portuguese people.



The group you know, I like the feedback because I’m basing it on the bodies that are growing up geography wise, based on the languages right now by adding the language like the Korean, I had four little creep up and I’m like, oh, that’s pretty neat. It was like point or two to three percent or something like that in viewership. So I put Korean and now it’s like doubled in size. I mean, it’s not huge, but know the point from I’m sorry, but websites and content and things like this, for those that are challenging or visually or audibly being able to have a real read to them in their language is it’s helpful.



You know, I’m not saying you fractionate your entire website to be in one hundred nineteen languages, but, you know, for the languages that you think you’re applicable for, it’s it’s helpful or having subtitles to the stuff, I make sure that not just the show but also to the podcast, gets the subtitles, gets it corrected I correct for it, and then have it put into the multiple languages so that anybody that wants to watch it can still read what we’re talking about.



It’s not completely accurate. We know that probably humorous to them in some ways, but it’s special events.



I mean, Ben, stuff is always screwed up.



I got to tell you, every time I go through the transcript transcription stuff, Ben, interesting stuff. And Stewart from New Guinea, it’s just the accent, but it’s the accent.



There’s not an artificial intelligence known to man that can transcribe northern English. I think it’s I don’t know what scuppered means.



Oh, yeah. By the way, that didn’t translate well. I can just tell you that it’s not OK to be my friend here.



Google, let’s just stick a search result in.



The other part I’m looking for is that whether we should put Irish in there, because we get a lot of people in Ireland. I know it’s friends of yours, Ben. I’m not sure I say it’s funny.



You mention as I as we as we started the show today, one of my friends who used to work with me at Pegasus sent me a very supportive message.



I lot they’ll let anyone on that. It just said my issue. First of all, John, if you’re still listening, this is an email.



This is already better.



So, yeah, you truly are attracting the cream of the crop, cream of the crop, the crop translated into Irish, Irish if they want to.



But I don’t know how that come through. I guess that wouldn’t be Celtic, wouldn’t it? Celtic.



Irish. Yeah, I think it’s Gaelic, Gaelic, Gaelic. OK, OK.



But I wouldn’t hold out for John being able to speak. And I did watch the TED presentation of the difference between the United Kingdom, Great Britain and England, just so you know, because I wanted to make sure that I understood exactly, Ben, how to address your nationality. Greitens Because I’m not sure either.



I did a very, very sloppy picture like on a screen. Sharav Like the outline of Britney. Here’s what I believe. And this is Great Britain and this is the United Kingdom.



And this is you who if you ever want to push Stuart’s buttons, tell them that he lives in England or came from, he will just light up and give you the drawing that you just did. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.



Not like me to do that.



Hey, OK. So I don’t know if anybody had chance to choose your Robert’s list of it, but he has he has the book and he has the world. But was there any other topics of anything else that we want to make sure we hit before we lost the rest of the time?



I do want to point out I do have some I’m going to put in for the show now, I have some call to action stuff that I need, Ben, your logo, because I’m going to be putting it into the videos.



Tammy, I already have Milestone’s logo, so we’re good. Adele, you don’t have a logo yet?



I would of. OK, Lily, I have.



Do you want to scream or do you want think stuff Enterprises is the logo. When I pump it up on these things let’s just think up enterprises. All right. I’ll put things up and then deemed which one you want me to run with.



I got the base camp on, OK, because what we do is I post edit this video and redistributed it. Next I use one stream to rebroadcast it. I’ve been now doing three broadcasting on Mondays for the live show and then on Wednesdays, eleven, thirty a.m. for AIPAC and then three a.m. your time then for London again. So runs three times a week and then the podcast does the same thing. And what I do is I put in the lower thirds from you guys pop on the show.



And also now I want to add the logo’s.



On it so that that, you know, we can see to what we’re going to represent so well, I mean, you know, honesty, we get a lot of people to do refer to the context of I mean, I get where someone will come in to say, well, Ben was right about that and you shouldn’t have argued with them.



You know, I mean, I get weird e-mails, but, you know, that happens a lot sometimes. I mean, well, it’s twenty past six on Friday for me in the U.K. Sometimes I’m just here to be an ass and do so well at that.



Sometimes I just want to just watch the world burn you guys on my outlet for a Friday.



But yes, I do a lot of interesting comments about the dynamics of our conversation, like when Ed and Stewart were disagreeing with me last week or was the week before I forget, which last week a lot of people were saying that you should let them bully you or something.



I’m like, you should just stand up and say I’d crush them.



I’m about 50 feet tall, but just outside the stall.



Yeah, but yes, it is it is it is interesting the dynamics of what our conversations bring. And strangely enough, I actually get emails in other languages. I have to translate one from Japan the other day and I’m like, what am I getting in Japanese email?



And then I had to I translated it was about the show.



I’m like, wow. So first of all, you do, sir, at metasearch base, metasearch in the room.



Well, with that in mind, I think we’re kind of at that point this there was some world peace or world hunger that we haven’t solved yet. I think we hit all the marks next week. We have a guest host. Next week they reached out to us from because they watch the show and that is the president of Plainville. And if you haven’t used the platform I’ve been using for years, I use it for my clients. And what it does is it’s a social media posting platform that goes you can set it up so that the client can approve or comment on the post before it is approved to go for lunch.



So it’s a nice intermediary platform of here’s the Post Fergana. Here’s the platform, which is going to go on. And then whoever you set up using a client based obviously or editor based, they go through and say there was a spelling or I don’t wanna use that image or that can be changed logo or whatever it is, and then they can approve it. You can also get methods to prove it or have someone else approve it and then it goes out as scheduled.



So it’s a nice preemptive social media posting platform. It has some limitations. I’ll be honest with you. With Instagram, you have to do it from your phone. So kick some notice to you. Takes the content and you have to manually put it out. That’s a problem. And they don’t do bulk loads, which is a problem, but it creates great calendars you put in their calendar format so the client can see what’s possible. Time for you to say something.



Well, I was just going to say, well, two things. One, the Instagram issue is not just cleanable. It is most of the software. Yes, mostly software. Yes. From the API. It’s not a limitation of the tool from experience. But I can say that with a tool like that, not only is it great for someone like you that’s working with clients, but for individual hotels that are lessening the ability to set up your your admin and your front desk staff or whoever you want is someone that can contribute content.



But then there’s that level of approval from someone that can go on to make sure is it grammatically correct. And Tami’s felt things right, because let’s be real.



Grandma is not my which is why I subscribe to Grandma Lee.



Oh, love, grandma.



I am like that for a hotel, especially now when we’re talking about, you know, Adele, I think you had mentioned social media as a free or a very low cost tool in our tool belt, having that that helpful stuff in a tool like that that can then help you consolidate and actually get more content to be pushed out. But in a way that’s controlled, I think is brilliant.



And I think it’s so important to engage the full team because you shouldn’t have a social media manager, you should have a social media driven company. And everybody should be thinking, what do I see? Do I see something beautiful in the hotel? Let me see nothing and and and share it instead of just with my friends. Let me share it with everyone and then you have someone to prove it. That’s a beautiful thing I guess. Get the front desk and the other departments thinking about marketing are frankly like one of the hotels.



We found that the spa manager was an absolutely phenomenal photographer and market for and now has her own career. It’s nice now.



It’s so. So. And she’s a cool name with your name is Xena. How many exes in the world do you know?



Why don’t you go next week? So it should be a fun conversation, I’d like said. I bought it from Masimo like everything years ago, and I’ve been using it, and it would really nice ownership loves it because to your point about the Hotel Campo’s stuff, but it doesn’t go any farther unless the owner says guy like that. That’s good. That’s good. That’s good. That’s good. And it’s very helpful in that sense. So cool.



Well, OK, so let’s we’ll start with Dean this time.



Dean, if people want to know about the amazing world of metasearch and what it is that your brilliance brings to the table, where is the clue?



So we’re working on actually we’re going a combination of things. One of them is on the training programs and teaching people how to run a metasearch campaign and all of the ins and outs of it. And that is at base Camp MEDCOM. But not everybody wants to do it themselves. And so we also have the doing part of the equation.



And as we can get you hooked up with the right technology vendors and or help you run it through metasearch, marketing, dotcom.



I’m really asking your help on that, because I’m about ready to kick whip out the door on the client, so I’ll be bugging you about that. Adele, where is it that people can find you and what it is that you do?



You can find me a Espiner reputation marketing dot com or e-mail me at Aspire Reputation. And, you know, if you understand that there is a fantastic relationship between your reputation, your five star reviews and the revenue that you have been able to achieve if you want to have earned media versus paid for media, a great way to do it is by focusing your reputation. And you may have already you may be using some reputation tools, but you’re wondering how do I really apply this in my business?



I can help you through that. And I look forward to talking to you. Just leave your door behind.



You look like Alice. Wonderland’s the door that goes to my home. I am from the bunny rabbit with the watch.



I just.



Oh, me, please.



The world of milestone so you can find me a milestone. is our website. I can find you on LinkedIn. Tammy Carlyle. I’m going to do two super quick plugs. One, the HDMI Marketing Advisory Board, which both Stuart and I are members of, had our meeting yesterday where Povey, our point of view topic was around budget season. So look for an article in the next few weeks that talks through I mean, let’s be real. There’s so much insanity and it’ll change on a daily basis.



But we tried to we actually did some polls and talked as a group about some ideas. And one of the questions was around give your best tip for budget season. So hopefully we’ll have a great article going out, supporting each of them. And a couple of weeks. Milestone is also doing a webinar. I’m actually I’m doing the webinar along with one of my colleagues, Keith Prophy, who has been in the industry for years as well on September 1st.



I don’t have the registration link just yet, Lauren. I’ll share it with you. I’ll put on the show. Knows for certain. Yeah, I’ll share it with you as soon as I have it.



But September 1st at, I believe, 10:00 a.m. Pacific Time, and we’re going to be talking about budget season, just really trying to give people some ideas and things. I mean, let’s be real. It’s going to be a strange year. It’s going to be different for everybody. But I think if we can give some comments and ideas and things to be thinking about that help as you go through, that’s really what our goal is with the webinar.



Also, we are pleased with that link to it on the notes and we’ll feature next week, obviously, as well. We’ll keep plugging until it comes up to schedule time. But when I think about asking Ben what they’re doing, I feel like I’m asking Dr. Evil at the bottom of the volcano what’s going on.



So then what’s the insects up to these days and what can they find you with all the cool stuff?



Well, I’m glad I’ve got a cat. You can borrow a lot of kids, to be honest.



It makes about as much as I could just bring him in the lab.



One of the ways I’m talking water, we don’t say yes, but it’s busy.



It’s been quite a busy couple of weeks for three and six. Yeah, we we’ve signed a few new clients, which is good to see that this movement in the market, even such a turbulent time. We are expanding the portfolio of services, hiring new designers and using specialists with experience in the hospitality industry.



And, yeah, getting some of the nuts and bolts tight end some of the technologies that we’ve been talking about.



I look forward to shamelessly plugging them on this show when it is completed because it has been a labor of love, not there’s anything wrong with earned media, but if you’d like some page, there’s no need to sell it on your own.



You need to buy one Benjaman. Yeah.



If you just want to pay for it. If you still want to pay for it, then obviously it is this.



I’m telling the people on this call and as part of the larger presenters. But yeah, three and six ethos is digital without dishonesty, trying to cut through the smoke and mirrors of the industry. And we get get the relationships to a point where we just don’t need to be dishonest. The results speak for themselves.



I honestly believe that that when it comes to best interest, that we’ll all look back and say, I remember them when they first started because I just see that they’re just going to blow the world apart with some of the stuff they’re doing.



Well, I w I just I mean, Lily, you’re already doing it so I can say. You just, you know, an institution in itself, so, I mean, just it’s amazing to think that we get to chat like this over a regular basis and stuff and that can’t begin to thank you all enough for taking time.



Speaking of taking over the world, revenue measure was in place a little bit about tourism services and things up.



And, of course, the amazing podcast that you are consistently doing. Excellent.



Thank you. Yes, you can find us at total customized for everything management or online CRM services, dot com, where we do all things day to day revenue management with excellence and also think up enterprises dot com. Now it’s easier because that’s the actual name of the business. We do a bunch of consulting projects, strategy alignment. If you need somebody to sit down and help you with your budget creation, that’s right up our alley and creating multiple plans for your success.



And also, since we were talking about math earlier on the show, on the podcast that’s featured on Think Up Enterprises, if you go back to Episode one, there is a great exercise there that will get you started and walk you through how to define some of those metrics to figure out what your longevity is with your cash flow, being a willing participant in your podcast.



I can honestly say I enjoy seeing the numbers grow. I mean, your download rate is increasing persistently, which is not just a reflection of the audiences because there’s a lot of listenership that doesn’t download, they just play. But downloads mean I got to remember this and keep it. And that’s profound that people take that up to it.



You know, if Ben had a podcast, I’m just saying, buddy, I know we’ve been really, really puns about getting back, but we’re so busy. What’s not to like to a on a minute, but I feel really vindicated that we’ve changed the relationships and not the revenue. And that approach is coming home to roost now. And we are so busy signing new clients.



I, I’m really happy about such a first world problem to have so many clients.



So so what you’re saying is you’re not going to need talking to us anymore. We’re going to be like, yeah, whatever. You guys have fun with that thing.



I’ll be on this show until you kick me off and realize he’s just faking this.



Oh, my goodness. Well, for all previous 2062, 62 episodes, including now turn sixty three, you can go to hospitality, digital marketing, dot com forward slash live there you will see all links and show links. And of course, we’ll put the link in for your presentation and push it out where we do the rebroadcast and so forth. For all that, all of the links to you all will be also on that for anybody wanting to reach directly to any of the websites of those who were on the show today, even for our co-hosts, that didn’t make it today, it’s appropriate.



We have the pleasure of having a wide diversity of co-hosts that whenever they can make it, it’s awesome when they do. And, you know, we look forward to next time they can pop back in again. We’re still missing.



Robert, you know, Robert, just amea I don’t he gives us the wonderful little list, but then he does, you know, and he used to be the mainstay for we were now we’re into our seventh year. We are anniversary last week. We’re actually rolling into our seventh year now.



And he has been a part of it is and he’s a missed commodity. So Robert, if you were listed as back. Miss you, buddy. Well, kind of. Maybe a little.



So with that in mind, thank you all so very much. Next week, I said we’ll have a guest co-host from Plainville. It’ll be eleven thirty eastern. This show does get replayed, as we mentioned, several times during the course of next week, live on all the platforms you see the LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Twitter, everything on a regular basis podcast also. And then we also rebroadcast for AIPAC and the London Time Wednesdays, 3:00 a.m. for both of those.



So for those in those times, those want to watch it back again, will be available that so until next week. Thank you, everyone, for participating this week. Obviously, everyone this week. Thank you very much, everybody.

Founder / CEO of Hospitality Digital Marketing

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